Question: Mr. Tambo, you have just completed a tour of some African countries; what was the aim of this tour and what are its results?
TAMBO: Our delegation has been to Algeria and Tunisia. Other ANC delegations have visited other States. The need for these delegations to undertake these missions arises directly from the unfolding crisis in southern Africa. After all we are not fighting an individual cause. Africa has committed herself to the total liberation of the continent before any individual independent State can consider itself truly independent. At the moment the greatest problem facing Africa in terms of liberation is in southern Africa. And within southern Africa itself the hardest core of reaction is in the South African regime. It has always been clear to us that an armed struggle against South Africa poses immediate dangers and threats to the entire continent of Africa, if it supports that struggle. We have always warned that South Africa - whose annual military budget which now stands at £128,000,000 - has designs not only for the ruthless suppression of the liberation movement in South Africa , but also for the support of all reaction in the rest of southern Africa and for the invasion of the African continent itself. We think it dangerous to minimise the threat to the independence of the African States. And as it is part of our plan to intensify the revolution, we feel it incumbent on us as leaders to discuss the implications of the revolution with African leaders.
In Algeria, for example, we took the opportunity of our meeting with the President of the Revolutionary Council, Colonel Houari Boumediene, the Director of External Relations of the FLN, Mr. Taibe Larbi, Commander of the FLN, Hoffman Slimane, and other leaders to discuss the situation. We have also benefited from full discussions with President Habib Bourguiba, Vice-President and Secretary-General of the PSD Bahi Ladgham, the Minister of Foreign Affairs Habib Bourguiba Jr. Minister of Defence Mr. Mestiri, and Director of the PSD Mr. Mohamed Sayah.
These missions have been most successful and we feel they will serve to guide us in our conduct of the revolution which we have taken upon ourselves not only for the freedom of our people, but for the whole of Africa and as a contribution to the victories of the peoples in the international struggle against racism, colonialism and imperialism.
Question: Mr. Tambo, you were Nelson Mandela`s legal partner in Johannesburg. Is there a hope for the victims of the Rivonia Trial?
TAMBO: It is true that I was a legal partner of Nelson Mandela but I was even more importantly his partner in the struggle for liberation. His imprisonment and that of other leaders and members has of course deprived the struggle of an important contribution of a powerful body of leaders. Nevertheless, all reports we get from our colleagues on Robben Island, in Pretoria Jail and other South African prisons, are consistent in affirming the high morale of these leaders and their great expectation for the success of the struggle which has resulted in their incarceration. Needless to say, we involved in the struggle are equally convinced that some day they shall join the free community of South Africa and the world.
Question: At what stage is the ANC? What are its real perspectives and prospects?
TAMBO: For a long time the ANC has been conducting militant struggle relying on nonviolent methods. This became particularly intense during the 1950s and gradually led to a stage at which the Movement switched from nonviolence to the phase of armed struggle. During 1967 the first armed clashes occurred between on the one hand the combined forces of the Smith and Vorster regimes, and on the other the united guerrillas of the ANC and ZAPU. It can be said that for the ANC this is the beginning of the armed struggle for which we have been preparing since the early 1960s.
It is a phase in which we can rightly claim to have scored victories by virtue of the superiority which our fighters demonstrated over the racist forces, sending a wave of panic throughout the area dominated by the racist regimes and arousing the masses to a new revolutionary mood. This is, however, only a small beginning in terms of the bitterness and magnitude of the revolution which is unfolding and which embraces the whole of southern Africa. But it is an impressive and effective beginning providing what I consider a guarantee for the success of our armed struggle.
Although the armed conflicts to which I have referred took place in Rhodesia, it involved South Africa because South African troops, personnel and finance were already involved in maintaining and sustaining the Smith regime. And the problems of the oppressed peoples of Zimbabwe and South Africa were becoming progressively identical. An armed struggle in Rhodesia is an armed struggle against part of the racist combine which is the Rhodesia-South Africa axis. This explains why the South African regime was rocked by the striking power of the guerrillas in Rhodesia as violently as if these battles had taken place within the borders of South Africa. And this explains why we regard the clash between the people`s guerrillas and the racists as the beginning of the armed struggle for which the masses of our people have been looking forward to.
Question: Which countries support your movement?
TAMBO: As a liberation movement we endeavour to secure the support of all countries, organisations and peoples throughout the world. We have been successful, I think, in focusing international attention on the evils of the South African racist regime; and there are many countries, governments and organisations which support not only the struggle of our people against racism and oppression generally, but who support the ANC as the Movement leading the liberation struggle in South Africa. The degree of support of course varies from country to country. In the African continent all the members of the OAU support the ANC, although some are supporters in addition of smaller parties in South Africa. We have the support of all the socialist countries with a few exceptions. Practically the whole of anti-imperialist Asia supports the ANC. And in Europe, America and Canada we enjoy the support of all important organisations. We are supported by leading movements in Latin America and the Revolutionary Government of Cuba.
Question: What is your programme of action?
TAMBO: Our programme of struggle is geared to what is known as the Freedom Charter, which is a statement of the objectives of our political struggle. It sets out the kind of South Africa we shall establish upon taking over power. In terms of the programme: we fight for a South Africa in which there will be no racial discrimination, no inequalities based on colour, creed or race; a nonracial democracy which recognises the essential equality between man and man. We shall abolish all the machinery whereby a few live and thrive on the exploitation of the many. The wealth of our country, which is abundant, will accrue to the equal benefit of all the people of South Africa. The power of government will rest in the hands of the majority of the people regardless of considerations of race. But our first and immediate task is to win over the power to rule our country as it should be ruled, that is, to replace the regime which consists of a white minority with a people`s government enjoying the mandate for all the people. It is the people who will then decide on the methods and the techniques for putting into effect the principles set out in the Freedom Charter.
Question: What are the liberation movements that support the ANC? Is there coordination between the ANC and these movements, especially regarding the armed struggle?
TAMBO: It has been a cardinal feature of the policy of the ANC from its very inception, to work for the unity of the people engaged in the common struggle for attainment of common objectives. In pursuance of this policy, within South Africa the ANC has rallied within the liberation movement all organisations and parties opposed to the South African racist regime and prepared to struggle for its total overthrow. Thus it is that the ANC embraces within itself a number of progressive and militant organisations who accept its leadership and programme of action; outside South Africa, it has sought to pursue the same policy of unity and coordination of activities among liberation movements and has established very close working relationships with the fighting movements of southern Africa and with the majority parties in other parts of Africa. An example of what the ANC understands by unity and coordination is the cooperation between itself and ZAPU (Zimbabwe African People`s Union) - cooperation which culminated in joint operations involving these parties in Zimbabwe (Rhodesia). This is a level of unity and mutual understanding which is possible among all liberation movements and which is to be found in varying degrees among those movements with which the ANC is known to have close relations.
Question: Is there a chance of the revolution breaking out inside South Africa?
TAMBO: There is more than a chance of the revolution spreading on an extensive scale in South Africa. This is a question which of course does not depend only on our will and determination to wage revolution. It also depends on the existence of objective conditions which taken together with the determination of the people make it inevitable. The political struggle in Africa has not been stagnant nor has it been so in the rest of the former colonial world. The defeat of forces of colonialism and imperialism is a process that is going on, and has been dramatically demonstrated in the victories of the peoples of Africa over colonial rule in the past decade.
The rise and emergence of armed guerrillas in southern Africa is further evidence of this process. Only a few months ago, as I have said earlier, South Africa, which has been professing perfect peace within its borders, has been drawn fully into armed confrontation with our revolutionary forces. It is clearly only a matter of time before this confrontation spreads itself to the valleys, mountains and bush of South Africa. There is nothing whatever that can halt the spread of the revolution in every part of southern Africa still under colonialist domination.
In saying this one is not blind to what constitutes the greatest source of strength for the racists and colonialists of southern Africa, that is, the material and practical backing of international finance flowing from imperialist countries. Nor is one unmindful of the military power of the South African regime built with the active support and cooperation of some Western Powers. These are factors which relate not to the question whether the revolution will grow in scope and magnitude but rather to the scale of bitterness and duration of the armed struggle. It has, however, no bearing on the ultimate result which can only be victory for the oppressed people of South Africa, and for the complete independence of the continent of Africa.
Question: Is there no gap between the leaders outside the country and the people inside ?
TAMBO: The fact that some leaders of the liberation movement are outside their respective countries means that in varying degrees there is a break between them and the leaders involved in the struggle within these countries. It is a gap forced upon the liberation movements by adverse circumstances and constitutes one of the problems which the liberation movements must solve. But it does not represent a total break. There is communication between the leaders outside and those within the country and it is one of the tasks of the liberation movement as a whole to strengthen and consolidate these communications. At a certain stage of every liberation struggle the need arises for the movement conducting the revolution to be in firm contact with the forces outside its country. This involves placing some of the leaders outside the country and the effectiveness of the arrangement always depends on the strength and durability of the lines of communication between the leaders inside and outside the country. It is to be expected that these lines of communication constitute one of the main targets of attack by the enemy.
Question: In what form do the United Nations decisions help you, especially those concerning economic sanctions?
TAMBO: It was at the instance of the ANC that sanctions as a mode of struggling against the South African regime came to be considered at the United Nations. Thanks to the vigilance and consistent support of the African States, as well as Asian and socialist countries, the United Nations has taken a correct position in adopting resolutions supporting sanctions against South Africa. To the extent that these sanctions have so far not been applied with any appreciable effect on South Africa, the resolutions have not helped us. But they have failed to take effect precisely because South Africa`s major trading partners have persisted in their policy of economic support for apartheid despite these resolutions, and have as a result sabotaged their effective execution.
There are many countries however, in Africa and elsewhere, who have honoured these resolutions and in doing so have helped us not only to weaken the South Africa regime but also to maintain the type of international pressure which is of considerable assistance to our cause. The decision to apply sanctions against South Africa was vigorously opposed by Britain and is still being opposed. But its correctness as a method of international attack on an evil regime was demonstrated by Britain herself when at her own instance the United Nations invoked sanctions against Ian Smith. But these sanctions also failed precisely because to succeed they would have had to be applied against South Africa as well. This would be to the detriment of apartheid in the enforcement of which Britain and other Powers would play a vital role.
In our view, attention should be focused on those countries which undermine the United Nations efforts against apartheid. They should be exposed as being parties not only to apartheid as a doctrine but also to its entire machinery and the inhuman effect of that machinery upon the people of South Africa. It should be emphasised, however, that we have never regarded sanctions as an alternative to our own struggle towards seizure of power in our own country. Indeed, it is not unlikely that if investors will not withdraw their capital in obedience to United Nations resolutions, they would nonetheless be compelled to consider their position as the armed struggle intensifies in South Africa.
Question: How do you conceive the struggle against the arms race of the South African racist regime and the supply of weapons by the big Powers?
TAMBO: As a liberation movement we are part of an international movement against racism, colonialism and imperialism. We have the support of peoples the world over, including in the USA, Britain, West Germany, France and Japan, the main suppliers of the South African regime. The struggle is one struggle waged by all right-thinking and freedom-loving peoples of the world against the South African regime as being part of and an instrument of the forces that are hostile to the interests of mankind. Our share of this common battle is to fight and destroy the enemy within South Africa with the assistance and support of all our friends; but our international friends have also their own special share of this burden, that is, to get their governments to disengage from South Africa. What is even more important, they should not permit their governments to send arms, which are expressly intended for the liquidation of the people. They must not give their labour to the manufacture of weapons, helicopters, armoured cars and submarines for export to South Africa. To participate in these ventures against the workers whose cause we fight is to commit an act of betrayal against us. At this time in particular, we expect anti-racists, anti-colonialists and anti-imperialists everywhere to play their parts in the armed struggle now spreading throughout southern Africa.
Question: How do you see the end of apartheid ?
TAMBO: Apartheid is a scheme, a device and a machinery for keeping a white minority in political and economic power in South Africa. It is also a machinery which serves the interests of international big business. It hinges on the colour of the skin and has the entire African population at the economic beck and call of this white minority which in turn, by holding the reigns of exploitation, becomes the agent of colonial and imperial interests. On the African continent, the concentration in South Africa of 3½ million whites holding 15 million Africans in subjugation makes that part of Africa a big prize for overseas investors.
The end of apartheid therefore must mean the dismantling of this machinery - the elimination of the agents which the white minority are, and the destruction of the means of exploitation of the African people. This is how I see the end of apartheid. It will therefore represent a transfer of political and economic power from the minority of whites to the majority of all peoples of all colours. There will be no racial discrimination because it will have ceased to serve the cause of exploitation. The bountiful wealth of our country will be shared by all its citizens. Here again the detailed process by which these ultimate objectives will be achieved must be left for decision by the masses after victory. But it is important to emphasise that not even victory in the battlefield represents the end of the struggle for the true independence of the people. It is therefore not possible to spell out how the total and final end of apartheid and all that it means and has meant will be attained. But that the people of South Africa will attain it is historically certain.
ES Reddy