Documents: Africans Respectfully Submit"

DOCUMENTS 39a - 39d. The Governor-General's Native Conferences
DOCUMENT 39a. Proceedings and Res­olutions of the Governor-General's Native Conference, 1923 [Extracts] (Published in Native Affairs Commission [Union] Report for 1923)

Pass Laws.

The Chairman stated that the first subject with which the Conference would deal was the Bill relating to the Pass Laws and called upon Colonel Godley to address the Confer­ence.

Col. Godley: The question of the pass laws was a burning one. It was essential that something should be done at once both from the point of view of the Europeans and the Natives. Government had long realised that the Natives in the Northern Provinces are suffering from too many restrictions and must be afforded some relief. On the other hand Europeans throughout the Union were pressing Government to tighten up the pass laws. That pressure come not only from the North­ern Provinces but also from the Southern portion of the Union.

It was very important that the Conference should devise some measure which, while meeting the reasonable requests of the Euro­peans will afford relief for the Northern Natives. If the Conference was unable to do this there was little doubt that the position would become worse.

The Government instructions to the Department and the Native Affairs Commis­sion were to bring up a measure based on the Bill now before the Conference (A.B. 24/23) which would apply to those areas where pass laws are in force.

He had been the Chairman of the Pass Committee which had travelled throughout the Union and had taken much evidence from Natives. The Committee submitted a report upon which the Bill was based.

The Bill was designed to secure the protec­tion of a Native by a life-long document which will enable him to travel freely in rural areas and secure perfect identification when he entered industrial areas.

The necessity of identification would be appreciated by the Conference when he stated that there were hundreds of unclaimed estates, through faulty identification records. For the same reason the Department was unable to deliver messages from Natives at home to their relatives in industrial areas.

Conference must bear in mind that the Bill was an earnest and honest attempt to secure the minimum of control and the maximum measure of protection to the Natives.

It only remained to discuss the Bill clause by clause and he would only be too glad to furnish any explanation which might be desired.

The Bill would have to be recast on account of clauses 9 and 14 having been incorporated in the Natives Urban Areas Act.
Clause 1 considered.
Mr. S. Msimang considered that the age of registration should be 21. If a boy of 18 were registered it would weaken parental control.
Mr. Lehana agreed with Mr. Msimang and thought the Registering Officer should make special investigation before issuing certificates.
Mr. Makgatho enquired how would a Regis­tering Officer know the age. He had seen cases at the Pass Office where boys of sixteen were put down as 21 and vice versa.
Col. Godley said there was seldom diffi­culty in fixing approximate age by reference to some historical event or the year of circumcision.
Mr. Mahabane supported Mr. Msimang's view. At 18 Native boys required strict paren­tal control.
Mr. Mapikela inquired whether it was in order to discuss this clause before they agreed to the principle.
The Chairman replied in the affirmative. The position was that there were too many passes in the Transvaal. Different systems in Natal and Orange Free States. Object of Bill is to get uniformity. A man would get an identification certificate at 18 for whole life.
Take the case of a young man of 19, who wants work--he could not go without certif­icate--if not, would require temporary docu­ment. He quite saw the point of parental control until 21. It was for the delegates to suggest how this could be attained.
Mr. Ndhlovu thought the boys should be given temporary documents until they reached 21. To prevent boys from going out to work, would be great hardship on some families.
Mr. Fenyang suggested that registration should only take place with consent of parents.
Mr. Zibi understood that that Bill was for protection of Natives who left their homes, but, it made every one register.
Col. Godley pointed out that a man might wish to leave home and then he need not go to a Pass Officer or Official for permission.
Mr. S. Msimang said he was not opposed to the registration of boys, except that registra­tion would take them out of parents' control.
He suggested that parents should keep registration certificate until boy went to work, any boy working without one, to be treated as a deserter from home.
Mr. Bikitsha said that any boy getting a certificate, could hand it to his parents, or they could demand it.
The Chairman said if you handed the certificate to a boy, and he left the district for work, the parent might lose control. If Con­ference wanted parents to have control, a boy might be given a temporary certificate up to 21.
Mr. Fenyang objected to registering a boy twice. The age should be 21.
Mr. Jabavu said he understood the Bill would only operate where pass laws were in force--this would leave the Cape untouched. But he would like to have his impression confirmed in black and white. He had strong resolutions from the Cape against any system of pass law. There were certain mild pass laws existing in a portion of the Cape, and these the people did not mind.
They were afraid the Government was taking away privileges.
Uniformity was a good word, but they were not prepared to give up anything.

After Union they had thought that the Cape spirit would permeate north--not vice versa.

The Cape Natives welcomed the relief from the pass laws to the Northern Natives, but would give up no privileges.

Mrs. Maxeke pointed out that three-fourths of the earnings of the Cape Natives were got from their employment in the Transvaal. Not six Transvaal Natives go to the Cape. The Cape Natives should remember this.

Mr. Langa said the Natives were very satisfied with the existing conditions. It was quite easy for them to come out to work. Government should leave things as they were.

Dr. Molema pointed out that the use of the word "pass" had been avoided. But registra­tion and exemption were the same thing. His views were very much like Mr. Jabavu's, namely that the pass laws of the Transvaal and Orange Free State were being introduced into the Cape.
Freedom in the Cape would be sacrificed for uniformity. Cape Natives felt strongly on this point. They welcomed the simplification of the pass laws in the Northern Provinces until Government could apply the Cape spirit to the North.

He accordingly moved:--

"That the Bill should only apply to the three Northern Provinces and the Cape Province should continue to enjoy the freedom from the pass law hitherto enjoyed." Mr. Jabavu seconded.

Mr. Makgatho understood one of the reasons put forward was that money was lost by Natives. If this applies to Transvaal then he said they did not want the pass. The time would come when the pass system must be removed. It caused bad feeling between Natives and Europeans. The actual carrying of a pass was not objected to but the irritating interference of the police.

The Chairman pointed out that some system of identification was necessary when people went from District to District or from Province to Province. This was in the interest of the Native. If this were accepted then what was the position as regards the Cape. If the Cape was excluded no Native could come to the Transvaal unless he got a certificate, not from the Cape but from the Transvaal.
The proposal in the Bill was to divide the Cape into three parts, (1) the Transkeian Territories, (2) British Bechuanaland and (3)-the remainder of the Cape. A man wishing to go from one part to another would require a certificate.
If Cape Province were taken as a whole, would it be advisable to give a man a certificate who wants to leave the Province.
Mr. Zibi enquired whether a man must be registered who did not leave his home.
Col. Godley replied that nearly every one left his home at some time or other --possession of a certificate would enable him to avoid going to an official sometimes 50 miles away for a pass.
The Conference adjourned at 12.45 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.
Col. Godley in the chair.
The Chairman stated that he would allow discussion on the general principles of the Bill--each delegate might speak once.

Mr. S. Msimang gathered that the Bill was to grant relief and contained one important principle, namely, that all Natives should be registered once, but if the Cape were excluded some Natives would be treated as aliens. At present pass laws in the Transvaal do affect the Cape to a large extent because a Cape Voter loses all his rights as soon as he crosses the Orange River, his position being lower than that of the exempted Native. People who were used to freedom were right to feel sore at being subjected to such a law in another Province. The Native working class from the Cape would be found in all parts of the Transvaal--the mines depended on it. Such people got a pass from their Magistrate to take them to the Transvaal, and as soon as they arrived they were treated exactly as Transvaal Natives.

If the Bill were not to apply to the Cape then Natives coming to the Transvaal from that Province would be in a very much worse position.

He could not see why the Cape Natives were making such a noise. To secure privileges let them agree to the registration.

Many Cape Natives domiciled in the Trans­vaal complained about the pass laws.

Chief Bokleni said he agreed with the principle of registration. Lots of Natives lost touch with their people. He understood that a man would use the registration certificate when he wanted to travel. Such a document would act as a protection. Even the Transkeian Territories Natives were worried with passes when they wanted to go to the Trans­vaal. Sometimes it took a Native three days to obtain a pass. With registration there would be no need to go to the Magistrate.

Further, registration would protect their young people.
He supported the principle of registration.
Mr. Thema asked the Conference not to discuss the matter from the provincial point of view, but with an open mind.

He appreciated the Government's efforts to grant relief to the Northern people, but at the same time he must point out that those people wanted the entire abolition of the pass laws.

He appreciated the Government's difficulty on account of the European view. In effect the Government said in response to the Native agitation for the abolition of the pass laws "I will introduce a system of registration." The Transvaal Natives in reply said "That will be a better system than the present one."

Now, he asked, should the registration system apply to the Cape? He thought that if the Government had power to abolish the pass law it would do so. Cape Natives should remember that the agitation for the abolition of the pass law would not cease even when this Bill passed. The application of the Bill to the Cape would be taking away rights from the Transvaal Natives and the Cape Natives.

The Conference should not take up the attitude: "If the law is to apply to us let it also apply to the Cape."

He did not think it would be difficult to meet cases of Natives coming to the Transvaal.
He drew the attention of the Conference to Mr. Welsh's views in Pass Committee Report, page 21 (U.G. 41-22.].
Mr. Mapikela said he had listened carefully to previous speakers, and especially Mr. Jabavu, but some seemed to have forgotten that the Cape Native would not be able to enter the Northern Provinces without a pass.

Delegates had come to the Conference to give and take and not to be selfish.
A pass system did exist in the Cape, whose Natives should remember that half a loaf is better than no bread. They should help their poor brothers in the Northern Provinces. They said: "Our forefathers used to carry passes but we are free to-day." But the Free State Natives were not.

Later on a time would come when all might say: "Let the pass system be abol­ished." But in the meantime let all accept the registration system proposed. If the Cape Natives went to the Orange Free State they would agree to it fast enough.

Mr. Pelem asked the Conference not to forget that the Cape was the oldest Province. As far as pass law was concerned the Natives had already been through the mill. This very registration proposed in the Bill had existed in the shape of a certificate of citizenship.
Some of the speakers wanted the Cape Natives to take a backward step instead of the Transvaal Natives climbing up to them.

As a representative of the Cape he stated that the Natives there were not prepared to take a retrograde step.
Mr. Ndhlovu said, after listening to previ­ous speakers, the point seemed to be what was the Cape going to do with the masses of labourers who came to the Transvaal. He understood that they would be under disabilities. Were Cape Natives going to lessen these. He wished the Cape delegates to under­stand that he would like the Northern Natives to come up to the same standard as the Cape Natives; but could they at present? He did not think so.
He asked the Cape delegates whether what they had said would be for the benefit of those who come to labour centres in the Transvaal.
Mr. Matoti said he sympathised with the Northern people.
He could not see what harm would be done if the registration system were extended to the Cape.
The existing stock theft law did not pre­vent stealing, for a man could change his name. A person would be registered for his own area, need not travel 60 miles to get a pass.
The Conference should not forget the interests of stock owners: everyone should have an identification.
By accepting the principle of registration stock thefts would be lessened, no bogus names would be possible and a certificate of registration would not be bulky.
He agreed with the principle of registra­tion.
Dr. Loram said that the Acting Prime Minister had indicated:--
(1) That there were only three days to get through the business if delegates wished to attend the Johannesburg meeting;
(2) that delegates would speak not for themselves but for all Natives, and, therefore Provincialism should be dropped;
(3) that the Native Affairs Commission existed to advise.
These three things impelled him to speak.
One of the grievances in the Transkei was that Magistrates did not speak in the Bunga, but only at the subsequent Magisterial Conference, but he thought that the most helpful Magistrates spoke more in the Bunga than in the Conference.
Conferences such as the present one had made a good start at Bloemfontein--one reason was that at the Conference facts had been recognised and advice tendered accordingly.
The present Conference should recognize one or two facts regarding the pass law, namely:--
(1) It was only a temporary measure and in the course of time would disappear;
(2) a pass system would have to be continued in the Orange Free State, the Transvaal and Natal;
(3) the Government had decided that the pass law need not apply to the Cape proper, but that a pass system would continue in the Transkeian Territories, British Bechuanaland and Northern Provinces.
He felt that the spread of education would make the pass law unnecessary.
Those who had the pass law in force should not complain just because the Cape did not have it: they should not ask the Cape to carry their burden, but rejoice that the Cape was free from it.
What was necessary was to find out how a Cape Native entering the Transvaal should get a certificate.
He could not see why a Native living in the free and glorious Cape Should apply for registration before he went to the Transvaal. So the Cape Native would be free until he went to the Transvaal.
He suggested that the Conference should direct its attention to finding this out.
Mrs. Maxeke said she was sorry to see the spirit of division in the Conference.
It would not serve the Natives' cause if the Cape were to be treated differently to the Northern Provinces. The policy of the Euro­peans was to divide the Natives and rule.
If the Cape accepted the registration system the Natives would be enabled to fight their grievances together.
She hoped the pass law would include the Cape so that the Natives could get together quickly.
Mr. Makgatho said it was a case of half a loaf and that was better than nothing.
On the other hand, the Natives said: "One King, one law." The question was: "Is there any help in the registration certificate; if so, why does the Cape object?"
If the Cape Natives said they were to be free then there was no necessity for the Transvaal Natives to have the law. The Cape delegates seemed to be in the Conference simply to tell it all the bad laws from which they were free.
If there is any help in the proposed law the Natives had better accept it--but let it apply throughout the Union.
He proposed that the principle of registra­tion be accepted.
Mr. S. Zibi said he understood that Cape Natives would be required to be registered when they entered the Transvaal, and he agreed to this. But he failed to understand why his Northern friends wanted to place the Cape people in the same position as they would be on entering the Transvaal.
Mr. Sikiti said it appeared that Natives would have to register when they left their homes for work and he thought the Confer­ence should agree to the principle of registra­tion.
Dr. Roberts said that for 40 years his views on the pass laws system had never changed-- they were well known--and during the few years remaining to him they would not change.
He asked whether in order to enable one body of people to move forward it was necessary for another body to go backward.
One great speaker had advised mankind to guard with their souls the privileges they had gained.
He hoped the Natives would never relin­quish the freedom won by them in the Cape as the results of the efforts of men like Merriman, Sauer and others.
From some of the statements made one might think that the whole of the Cape Native population--nearly two millions--came to the Transvaal! And for a few thousands-- 50,000--some of the delegates wanted to put a burden on 1,640,000.
He thought it quite possible to have a change for the better in the Northern Prov­inces and yet leave the Cape alone.
He did not think the Conference so stupid as not to be able to find a way out.
Mr. Mahabane moved:
"That in view of the fact that the pass laws system operative in the Province of the Cape of Good Hope appears to be more calculated to produce more harmonious relations between the white and the black races of this land and to promote a more peaceful government of the Bantu population of this country this Conference recommends that the system existing in that Province be extended to the other Provinces."
Speaking to the motion Mr. Mahabane said he failed to see the necessity for the registra­tion of all the people. They were already registered through the payments of poll tax and hut tax. If registration was required in order to provide identification he failed to see why the tax receipt could not serve as such.
If one exemption were the 5th Standard why not others. There were too many divi­sions of the people: it was also proposed to leave out the Cape. Now, travelling passes were taken in the Cape setting forth the name, residence, etc., if the law made the holder keep his travelling pass it would identify him.
There being no seconder, the motion dropped.
General Lemmer said it was clear from the debate what an important matter this was. The Transvaal and Natal had too many passes and some alteration was necessary.
He thought that any new law should apply to all the Provinces.
He did not want to interfere with the rights and privileges that some Natives enjoyed, but he thought the principles in the Bill were reasonable. Under the Bill Cape Natives would not be touched until they travelled. If the Bill included the Cape it would make things more easy for the Natives.
In matters such as this there are two classes of interest to be considered--white and black. It was impossible to think that all pass laws could be abolished at that time.
He hoped that Natives would recognize that the provisions in the Bill were in their interests. It was better for a Native to have such a document than to have to run to a Magistrate or an official for a pass.
He could not see how the Cape System could possibly work in the Northern Provinces.
If one or more Provinces was to be left out of the Bill uniformity could never be attained.
He would be glad if Natives had reached the position when a pass was unnecessary, but they knew that until the Natives reached a certain standard restrictions were needed for their own protection.
Mr. S. Msimang moved, seconded by Mr. Matoti:
"That the principle of the Bill be accepted."
Mr. Thema moved, seconded by Dr. Molema:
"That this Conference appreciates the efforts made by the Government, and is ready to consider the methods to alleviate the disabilities imposed by the Pass Laws upon the Bantu communities in the Transvaal, Natal and the Orange Free State, but is strongly opposed to the Registration and Protection Bill being applied to the Bantu people of the Cape Province."
The Chairman said he wished to make it clear once more that the Government's instructions were that the Bill was only to apply in areas in which a pass law was in operation, that is in the Orange Free State, the Transvaal, Natal, the Transkeian Territo­ries and British Bechuanaland.
From the debate it seemed to him that the feeling of the Conference was in favour of the principle of registration, as the Government proposed to apply it, and he suggested that Messrs. Msimang and Thema might withdraw their motions and a motion brought forward giving expression to this feeling.
Messrs. Msimang and Thema, with the leave of their seconders, withdrew their motions.
Mr. S. Msimang, seconded by Mr. Thema, moved:
"That this Conference adopts the principle of registration as explained by the Chairman, namely, that it shall only be extended to those areas in which a pass law is in operation."
Agreed to unanimously.
Constitution of Conference.
The Chairman intimated that as the Acting Prime Minister had specially asked the dele­gates to assist by their advice in evolving some scheme for the constitution of future Native Conferences he wished to invite full discussion on the subject.
Mr. Majozi said that if the delegates dis­cussed the matter for the whole day they would find no solution. There was no machin­ery in existence. If the Natives were asked to elect delegates it would cause great trouble. The Prime Minister had mentioned how hard it was for the people to appoint their own councils. The Conference was in its infancy.
He suggested that the selection of delegates be left in the hands of the Government-- which has the advice of the body representing all Natives in the Union, namely, the Native Affairs Commission. This should continue for two or three years.
The Government should endeavour to see that all portions of the Union should be represented.
If the people elected delegates the latter would only be recognised by certain sections.
Mr. Bikitsha said he agreed with Mr. Majozi, that the matter should be left in the Government's hands. The Conference was in an experimental stage and delegates should go slowly.
The desire to select delegates was due to a wish to send firebrands to the Conference.
Mr. Sikiti admitted that the election of delegates was difficult, but in the Cape they had the machinery, for in that Province there were Native parliamentary voters. In the other Provinces there were no voters. He did not think that every man in those Provinces should be entitled to vote.
He thought that the Government should continue to nominate delegates.
Mr. Mahabane moved, seconded by Mr. Zibi:-
"Whereas in the opinion of this the second Conference of Native Chiefs and other representative Natives with members of the Native Affairs Commission held in Pretoria this 24th day of September, 1923, the inter­ests of the more satisfactory administration of Native Affairs would be better served if the Conferences contemplated by section 16 of the Native Affairs Act No. 23 of 1920 were partially selective, partially nominative and partially elective.
"The Conference therefore respectfully yet strongly recommends the Government to con­sider the advisability of introducing machin­ery whereby one-third of the members of the Conference would be selected by the Govern­ment, one-third nominated by Native Chiefs domiciled in the several Provinces or Native Territories of the Union, and one-third elected by the various Bantu political or industrial associations in the country."
He considered that these Conferences were good. They should inspire confidence at the outset, but selected Conferences did not do so, as they raised opposition. This had been recognized by the Acting Prime Minister.
The difficulty of election could be met by giving the right of election to existing Bantu Associations, which represented the organized sections of the people. The unorganized sect­ions would be met by the Chiefs' nomina­tions. In the Urban Areas delegates could be elected from existing organisations.
The time would come when the Native people should be governed with their consent. He appreciated the Government's action.
Mr. Jabavu supported Mr. Mahabane's views. Some people saw only wrangling for the choice to be present at a Conference and this might happen if badly done. But he would draw attention to the Transkei where election and nomination were both recognized in the Councils.
The single aim should be to get the confidence of the Natives in the Conference.
He thought the principle of one-third nominated by the Government and one-third nominated by the Chiefs good.
But he differed from Mr. Mahabane in regard to the Bantu political organizations-- not on account of any suspicion but because it would leave out the representation of some people.
He suggested that all Natives owning prop­erty valued at £75 or earning £50 p.a. be given the right to vote for delegates. This would facilitate machinery, for those qualifications were what were fixed for parliamentary voters and he was looking forward.
The Conference adjourned at 12.45 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.
Mr. S. Msimang said he was in sympathy with Mr. Mahabane's motion but he felt that any election by Bantu associations would not succeed. Before accepting the proposal they would have to know the standing and strength of the Associations as well as the qualifica­tions of the members.
He knew of course that associations were contemplated under the Native Affairs Act, 1920, but was the Conference prepared to accept any Association. If so there would be a multitude of Associations.
Furthermore there was no system by which Chiefs could come together to select repre­sentatives.
He was sorry it had not been possible for the Government to establish Native Councils in Native Areas--but they would come and in the meantime something else had to be put forward.
He suggested that for the next Conference the Government should nominate one-half of the delegates and the remainder should be chosen as follows:--
(a) In the Cape by the election of candidates for whom registered voters would vote;
(b) in the Transvaal, Natal and Orange Free State, exempted Natives should furnish lists of names from which delegates could be selected.
Mr. Pelem agreed with Mr. Msimang. He said he represented Glen Grey--a district with a Native population of 55,000--where the Glen Grey Act was in force. Location Boards were elected every year and his experience was that the people did not understand the responsibility attached to the election of members.
Mr. S. Msimang's idea of one-half the number of delegates being nominated by the Government was good.
Mr. W. Msimang advised the delegates to hasten slowly. They should place full confidence in the Government. The Confer­ence had just been born and was not even creeping. If the delegates returned home and told the people they must vote it would only create a disturbance. Where election was concerned he found that the people voted against an intellectual man. The people were backward especially the chiefs and council­lors. How could such people elect proper representatives.

He thought the matter should be left in the hands of the Government.

He suggested that the Government should nominate delegates not for one year, but for a period of years.
Mr. Zibi said he was under the impres­sion that Chiefs were specially mentioned in the Native Affairs Act.
He did not fear Native Organizations which were working for the benefit of Natives, and he thought the election of delegates should be in their hands.
Mr. Makgatho emphasized the fact that suspicion would be created.
Dr. Roberts addressed the Conference.
Mr. Thema said it appeared to him that the Conference was not quite ready to consider the question of election.
He pointed out that the number of delegates should be increased as there were many important districts in the Transvaal which were not represented.
He moved:--
"That the question of the Constitution of the Conference be held over till next year."
Mr. Ndhlovu seconded the motion.
Mr. Mahabane pointed out that the days of government by nominated persons were when autocracy ruled, but democracy now ruled.
He had no objection to the postponement of the consideration of the Constitution.
Mr. Mahabane, with leave, withdrew his motion.
Mr. S. Msimang suggested the appointment of a Committee to deal with the question.
The Chairman said he could not accept the suggestion.
The Chairman put Mr. Thema's motion, namely:--
"That the question of the constitution of the Conference be held over till next year".
The following voted:--
For the motion:
1. Bokleni.W.
2. Fenyang, Z. W.
3. Kuzwayo, M.
4. Langa,J.
5. Lehana, S.
6. Majozi, S.
7. Matoti,S.
8. Maxeke, Mrs.
9. Moiloa.
10.Molema,S.M.
11.Mopeli.
12. Msimang, H. S.
13. Msimang, W.
14. Mphahlele, P.
15. Ndhlovu, W.W.
16. Pelem, M.
17.Takalani.
18. Thema, R. V. S.
19. Zibi, S.
Against the motion:
1. Jabavu, D. D. T.
2. Mahabane, Z. R.
3. Makgatho, S. M.
4. Mapikela, T. M.
Motion carried.

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