South African History Online

Soweto, 15 February 1990

Mashilwane: Madiba, to get straight into the matter: When I listened
to your speeches, both in Cape Town and Johannesburg, and I listened to what the
State President had to say last night, I got a mind that you have found common
ground, as the State President and the ANC. But on the other hand, there is
still a mood of mounting the struggle.

Can we, Madiba, get the reasons behind this?

Mandela: We have made good progress, in my opinion. We have been
conducting discussions with the government over the last three years, and I
think that we have made good progress. The unbanning of the ANC, and the partial
lifting of the 'state of emergency' and the decision of the government to
release certain categories of prisoners is a result of, among others, the
discussions that we have been having.

Of course, there are other important factors but the discussions that we have
been having have produced results. I am confident, therefore, that we have found
common ground. We certainly have laid down the foundations for future
negotiations in this country.

Mashilwane: But then, Madiba, would you say there are still reasons to
continue with the struggle?

Mandela: Yes. You must remember the basic demand of the people of this
country: it is one person. one vote; it is a non-racial society in which we all
live as brothers and sisters. as South Africans.

We are still very far from that.

Keyter: But, yet, last night and this morning, Mr. Mandela, you were
reported to have said that one man one vote may be negotiable.

Mandela: Well, if you decide to settle problems through negotiation,
then you must be prepared to compromise, and compromise, as I understand it, is
not in regard to peripheral issues. Compromise can only be effective and
properly understood if it relates to basic demands, otherwise it is not
compromise. Compromise means each of the parties involved should give away
something to the other, should accommodate the demands, the fears, of the other
party.

Keyter: ...Would you be speaking as the most recently released,
prominent ANC member or would you be speaking on behalf of the ANC at this point
in time?

Mandela: No, Mr. Keyter. I am a loyal and disciplined member of the
ANC. I had a little bit of discretion when I was discussing with the government
from prison, and the organisation understood that it was not possible for me to
consult the organisation every time an issue arose, and they gave me express
mandate to act on their behalf whilst in prison.

But now that I am released, I must report to the ANC, and I no longer enjoy
that discretion. I must now function as part and parcel of the ANC, and it is
they who will determine what role I should play.

Mashilwane: Upon your release, sir, you said you are looking forward
to the type of political settlement that will satisfy both sides, whites and
blacks. After saying that, you came up with a philosophy of nationalisation that
made most of the people you wanted to address in the settlement a bit shaky.

Can you sir, explain the intentions behind the nationalisation
philosophy?

Mandela: I am sorry. I regret to note that influential circles among
whites in the country and abroad are agitated about our demand for
nationalisation, not of the entire economy, but of certain sectors which we
regard as being important in so far as the economy of the country.

Nationalisation is part of the history of this country. After all, many
sectors of our economy are today nationalised. It is only now that the
government is thinking of changing the whole approach on our economic system,
that they are calling for privatisation.

Now, we do not understand how they would justify changing the whole approach
towards nationalisation, in the sense that privatisation will mean that those
people who have the economic resources will be able to buy these industries
which have been privatised. We will not be able to do so, because we haven't got
the resources, we haven't got the capital.

It appears to us that because now that the possibility is there that we may
have an effective voice in government, the whites have decided that the only way
of preventing blacks, you see, from having control over the wealth of the
country is to privatise.

We can't accept that.

Keyter: Mr. Mandela, there have been voices from Britain, from
America, from elsewhere, since your speech on Sunday (11 February) where you
called for the continuation of sanctions against South Africa, negative sounds,
I would guess, seen from your side.

Haven't you thought of rethinking the call on sanctions?

Mandela: Mr. Keyter, there is nothing the ANC wants more than to move
away from the situation of conflict and confrontation. As I have pointed out
before, a statement I want to repeat again: There is not a single political
organisation in this country, inside and outside Parliament, which can ever
compare with the ANC in its total commitment to peace, to peaceful change.

The armed struggle to which we have resorted, the sanctions, are purely
defensive against the violence of apartheid.

If the government gives us a chance, we would welcome moving away from the
situation of conflict and confrontation to that of peace.

Keyter: Mr. Mandela, apart from what you said, the initial impact, the
first impact, which the white South Africans had of your speech on Sunday, and
your press conference on Monday, and then addressing the crowd in Johannesburg,
was that of fear.

How do you intend coping or channeling that fear so that, at the end, there
is a guarantee for whites and blacks in South Africa?

Mandela: In the document which I gave to the government last year,11
shortly before I met the state president, P.W. Botha, I said that two issues
will have to be addressed by the ANC and the government: firstly, the demand of
one person one vote in a unitary state; and secondly, the fears of whites, the
concern of whites that the realisation of this demand will result in the
domination of whites by blacks. And, I feel that that fear is genuine; it will
be wrong, but it is genuine; and the ANC must address that fear.

The whites must be reassured that the realisation of that demand will not
lead to domination of whites by blacks. After all, our policy is clearly set out
in the Freedom Charter. We have also set it out very clearly in the Harare
Declaration.

The government has nothing comparable to these two documents. Even Afrikaners
themselves who are in the National Party are still not clear as to exactly what
type of society South Africa wants to create. They have not stated out clearly
as we have done. Therefore, nobody can complain that we had not given attention
to the position of rights because these documents are totally non-racial.

We have ceased to think in terms of colour. We are thinking in terms of South
Africans and of course, Europeans that form a very important part of this
population. They have made a contribution which cannot be suppressed in the map
of this country....

Keyter: If the ANC wants the government to fulfil all the
preconditions set by the ANC, what would the ANC do in the process of
dismantling all the legislation pointing to apartheid?

Would the ANC like the government to do everything and only the ANC
maintaining the position of strength?

Shouldn't they all go and drop both sides, and then go to the negotiating
table together?

Mandela: Well, I have no doubt, personally, that if we agreed that the
government should meet all the preconditions, and the ANC should simultaneously
issue a statement committing itself to peace, I think that would be tremendous
progress.

You must remember that, originally, we had insisted on dismantling the entire
structure of apartheid before we can sit down to negotiate.

As a gesture, as a goodwill gesture, we have removed that, because we realise
that this would present the government with a problem, because it is not so easy
to dismantle apartheid, and we have merely stressed those preconditions which
the government can immediately fulfil, without the necessity of convening
Parliament.