South African History Online

TIME, February 26, 1990.

On his fifth day of freedom, Nelson Mandela invited a TIME correspondent into
his home for a chat about prison, freedom and the outlook for his country

By Scott MacLeod/Soweto & Nelson Mandela

Q. What surprises you most about the changes you have seen?

A. The appearance of the place has changed very much,
although poverty still stares you in the face. But from the point of view of the
country as a whole, I am surprised by the extent to which a substantial number
of whites have now accepted that a solution for this country lies in discussions
with the [African National Congress], and their readiness to accept a nonracial
South Africa.

Q. One of the first things you said was that you were not a prophet. Do
people expect too much from you?

A. Well, I don't think so, although I felt the necessity of
warning them that no individual can solve the enormous problems that face us. It
is a collective effort that will enable us to solve [our] problems.

Q. Do you feel a heavy burden of responsibility?

A. I don't have any fear of a heavy responsibility. As I
have said, I am a loyal and disciplined member of the A.N.C. My duty is to
report to them, and I will use their machinery in any attempt to solve problems.
I will not be acting as an individual. I will be acting as a member of a team.

Q. You look fit. How is your health?

A. My health, as far as I am concerned, is all right. I have
been monitored by very top medical practitioners and specialists.

Q. How serious was your bout with tuberculosis two years ago?

A. Fortunately, they found it at a very initial stage. There
was no spot or lesion in the lungs. They predicted very cautiously that it would
clear away completely, and they assured me that it has cleared.

Q. What was the hardest thing about prison life?

A. We went through very harsh experiences at the beginning
of our life imprisonment. I was never brutally assaulted, but many of my
colleagues around me were.

Q. There were reports that you became friends with your guard.

A. In actual fact, there were three. There was Major Marais.
He was in charge of the premises [at Victor Verster Prison Farm]. Warrant
Officer Gregory was his assistant. And Warrant Officer Swart was the man who
actually lived with me in the house from 7 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon,
when he left until the following morning. I got on very well with all of them.
We became very close friends.

Q. Do you intend to see them again?

A. If I have the opportunity, I certainly will see them.

Q. Are you bitter that you lost these years of your life?

A. Yes and no. I am bitter. There were aspects that were
rewarding. I have lost a great deal in the sense that I spent 27 years of my
life in prison.

Q. Was your sacrifice worth it?

A. Yes, it was worth it. To go to prison because of your
convictions, and be prepared to suffer for what you believe in, is something
worthwhile. It is an achievement for a man to do his duty on earth irrespective
of the consequences.

Q. When did the government become more conciliatory toward you?

A. Actually, the attitude of the government took this form
right back to the 1960s. I was visited by Mr. Jimmy Kruger, who was Minister of
Justice, several times. I was visited by Mr. [Louis] Le Grange, who is now the
Speaker of Parliament. Leading VIPs, both local and abroad, were allowed to
visit me. The attitude of the government was contradictory. Despite the harsh
treatment, they were prepared to have discussions with me. During the past three
years, I started an initiative of talking to the government on the question of
the release of prisoners and the question of a meeting between the A.N.C. and
the government.

Q. You initiated political talks?

A. Yes.

Q. What makes you say that President De Klerk is a "man of
integrity"?

A. From the two discussions that I have held [with him],
this has been my distinct impression. There are many things that he said and did
which convinced me that this is a man I could do business with.

Q. Do you have an understanding with De Klerk that the two of you must
bring your people to reconciliation?

A. On the question of creating a climate conducive to
negotiations, we see eye to eye.

Q. Are you optimistic that the issues of political prisoners and the
ending of the state of emergency can be resolved fairly quickly?

A. I think so, personally. I don't think that [De Klerk] has
any ground for resisting these two demands.

Q. The main pillars of apartheid still exist in your country. Why do you
say that "freedom is on the horizon"?

A. Well, I have not really personally said that "freedom is
on the horizon." What I have said is that I am confident that the State
President is going to address the questions of the release of political
prisoners and the lifting of the state of emergency in its totality. Once that
happens, we would be able to sit down to discuss a new constitution.

Q. Is the A.N.C. going into negotiations in a weak position in comparison
with the government?

A. No. We are in a powerful position, because the government
now has accepted that there can be no peaceful settlement in this country
without the involvement of the A.N.C. For them to change their policy on this
question is a victory for the A.N.C.

Q. But the government still has the security apparatus.

A. They always have. But we have succeeded in getting them
to acknowledge that we have a role to play.

Q. When should sanctions be lifted?

A. When a settlement is reached.

Q. Do you plan to accept the invitations to visit President Bush and
Prime Minister Thatcher?

A. Oh, yes. Speaking for myself, I will accept the
invitations. I have indicated to President Bush that I was honored by his
invitation. But I will report to the A.N.C., and they will eventually decide
whether I should accept the invitation.

Q. You have said the main issue in negotiations is reconciling black
demands for one man, one vote with white fears of what that might mean for them.
Is that possible?

A. There is sufficient goodwill to reconcile these two
points. The A.N.C. is certainly ready to address the fears of whites.

Q. Would you compromise on one man, one vote?

A. I am talking about compromise in general. Compromise
means accommodating the point of view of the other party. We are prepared to do
that.

Q. Is this your personal view?

A. It is the view of the A.N.C. that a compromise will be
necessary when you are negotiating. If you don't intend having a compromise, you
don't negotiate at all.

Q. Is President De Klerk's fear of a right-wing backlash justified?

A. He has no reason to fear the right-wing backlash. He
fears it because he is concentrating on the Afrikaners in this country. Or on
whites alone. He is not taking advantage of the potential support he might get
if he adopts the policy of a nonracial South Africa. He would get overwhelming
support. He has already got over 75% of the whites in this country. Therefore,
if he emancipates himself from thinking only of Afrikaners and thinks of whites,
he will be assured of 75% of white voters. But if he expands the scope of this
initiative, he will get the overwhelming support of blacks.

Q. Are white fears of black domination justified?

A. They are not at all justified. We have set out our policy
in the Freedom Charter. That policy ought to satisfy everybody that we don't
mean to dominate anybody.

Q. How seriously do you take the reports of threats to your life?

A. There is no threat whatsoever from the so-called radical
left. The only threat can be from the right wing.

Q. Are you concerned?

A. No, my people will protect me.

Q. When will blacks be free in this country?

A. I am no prophet. I cannot say.